Hi Dudes

We generally define Psychology as the "science of mental processes and behaviour", however its difficult to define in that "Psyche" in "psychology"
also suggests breath, life, soul or mind.

Ive read books as i know we all have, exploring NLP and NAC the practical use of your mind by conditioning desired behavioural reactions to develop your life in a new direction, to take control and become a more mentally powerful human should you choose to, also reading the works of American author Tony Robbins helped in developing a broad appreciation for the huge subjectiveness of our human behaviour, the trouble was i still felt there was something else, something more i was missing .. after all why do we seperate ourselves from each other always trying to be different wether by our beliefs or opinions, why are we feeling inadequate and feeling compelled to become more in some way to belong or feel a part of something? why are we so afraid ?

Now comes the end, or rather ...the beginning,

What i realised answered all the questions and its been known for a very long time, it has no alternatives, contains no beliefs, or opinions though as you may be wondering why dont we all know it ?, the truth is we do we just dont realise it yet , and realising this truth is up to you though there is an obstacle to overcome.

For now please try this simple exercise in realisation of self that i read.

Clear your head first so you are calm and relaxed ......and then notice the next thought that enters your mind ............

Had one yet? Ok it may seem a little confusing next so dont analyse this just know what you see, Once you notice the thought you become aware of something, there are two !! , if "you " are able to notice a "thought" then there has to be two of you, the thought and the observer of the thought only as you will discover if youd like me to continue only one of them is real............
obviously as the phrase goes "the rabbit hole is deep" please post a reply if you are ready to hear more...

Have fun

:| - Sounds like to me. Your talking about: Conscious and Unconscious Self.

-Although. I believe "MORALITY", and what we, as a (current) "Society" beliefs to be,
on what is Right and what is Wrong a major issue of "Being Yourself".

- I can elborate if you wish to ...enter "my" rabbit hole.

*WARNING* -Before entering, make sure proper safety gear has been accounted for and also importantly
the "essential" requirement of a compass, a flash-light, and extra rope to exit this rabbit hole. :)

Entering My rabbit hole (My Minds Beliefs, Concepts & Understandings)
*This Specific "Rabbit Hole" is always "Open" to the Public and the World Science Community*

INVENTORY, (for temporary) TRAVEL...
...You always must have the required safety gear: Hard Hat & Safety Shoes, to include the following:

...you need the (1) compass, to find your way when your lost (in my maze) and can't understand what I'm talking about. :)

...you also need (2) flash-light, because I may decide to ignore you completely if I don't like what I'm hearing. And need to find the light switch :)

...and last but not least (3) Extra rope. Although "my rabbit hole" is open to suggestions and comments, you may have the need for extra rope if you decide to climb due to "over-whelming","over emphasizing","under-estimating" and "Male-Chauvinistic" views. :) (lol)

...and note: Safety glasses are required (for me) although not necessary, just in case you decide to spit in my face...:)

...Let's start by saying this, "Being Yourself" is difficult (depending) because men and women are not designed to be equal. So therefore we "as a society" should not be treated as equals. :supz:

Hi ,

"How many will listen to the truth when you tell them?"
Yiddish Proverb

William Shakespeare "There is nothing in life either good or
bad until thinking makes it so"

Thanks for the reply, yes im talking about consciousness though perhaps i should have used something as an alternative to "rabbit holes", words are only useful to describe something when they act as signposts and not concepts.

In using the above exercise you have briefly become aware of who you are underneath your mind, from this moment on we will increase your awareness which compares a little to a stream that will become a river and then an ocean, you will realise "being" is infinately more vast than the limiting,
thinking mind you have assumed as yourself (being this or that). As your consciousness is revealed most of what you took to be your sense of self will begin to disolve, where once you were a mind a wonderful joyous new freedom emerges that was and is always there, it is you, it is life.

Realisation of life is the knowing of what you are not and not what your mind thinks you are, not the collection of values, opinions and beliefs but the awareness of those beliefs, be aware that beliefs opinions and values can change as percieved circumstances or information changes but nothing
real ever changes.

Life is real, life doesnt change, only our minds perception of life changes

If you were told you, you were living in an illusion, a kind of self created dreamworld that has developed itself into what you believe is you, you could choose to believe me or not, you would have what i said as knowledge, thoughts.. and quickly build a mind scene based on my story, ................only for this story to be true to you it would have to be realised by witnessing first
hand the illusion, and only by stepping out could you appreciate what you had been inside, then it would be true for you. Otherwise you would be denying your own existence by preffering the illusion to the reality you might uncover.

Question if you really in control of your existence, does your experience
of life flow with ease or crash like a waterfall, do you find it easy to communicate with other people without conflicts like arguments or debates, is life a help or a hindrance, do you appreciate each moment and choose for yourself or let your thinking mind find something wrong with it?

Yes this seems deep, but only because weve forgotten who we are
, most of us answer the question of personal identity with a name, job, age, belief (e.g. im religious) country i live in etc, none of which has anything to do with who we actually are,

The truth has to bring us all together regardless of conditions it has to be the same to know for everyone without being brainwashed or parented into us, it has to be the obvious, something already known centuries ago by people
just like Jesus regardless of how he knew his message must be more than what we see,..and it is...its what we havent been noticing.Jesus among many other teachers tried to tell us what you are now learning, he offered us freedom , he offered to lift our burden, we talk the words of Jesus but we dont appreciate what he meant instead weve turned him into another icon even though the gospels tell of Jesus saying put no man above another, the
absolute opposite of the humble man he was. As with a picture that resembles something totally different when turned upside down
consider that when Jesus offers to lift our burden what did he mean?
what burden could Jesus lift? what burden do we all carry?
what is the only burden we could all be aware of ? You know your life experience is interpreted by your mind, you know that depending on the minds reaction, circumstances can seem desperate or pleasurable. Then know this, the burden you carry is not physical whether strong or weak this excess
bagage exists for us all, only some cope better than others.

Your choice is to put down or continue to carry this burden, i only say be honest with yourself "know" inside what is being said to you im not giving you a belief im telling you the truth.

Let me Quote you. ...Life is Real, Life doesn't change, only our minds perception of life changes. <----Let's dissect this one, shall we ?

But, First let's define that word, "LIFE". Let us come to an agreement of that definition before we move on.
-Because, If we can not come to an agreement of what the meaning of "LIFE" is, then one us has "closed" their mind to his/her existence.

Life
(n), pl. lives
1.
a) The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.
b) The characteristic state or condition of a living organism.
2. Living organisms considered as a group.
3. A living being, especially a person.
4. The physical, mental, and spiritual experiences that constitute existence.
5. The interval of time between birth and death.

....etc... etc...:arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

...This is the "Broad" Definition I found. Do you agree with this definition of what the meaning of "life" means to you ?

...Or should we let someone know, that someone has made a mistake. And that they should begin world-wide changing of the definition, to yours ???

-YES or NO ??? or has ...your "perception" of life, changed?:?:

I shall wait for a small response, before I continue. Please, anytime...:|

Hi again,
I am not here to defend any position and there is no "my way" if you are living happily and accepting each moment as though you chose it then there is nothing i can offer you in which case i wont get another reply from you. If your genuinely intrigued then know that, that which you wish to be free of is analysing and trying to understand what im saying as a concept , How can you know life when you are life? you are trying to know this on the level of mind but you are underneath the thinking otherwise how can you observe it? forgetting the definitions the only difference between a dead or alive human is energy , you know this you can feel it inside its been the same feeling ever since you became aware of it and will be the same right up until your body fails, your mind will age , adding new opinions, values and beliefs etc which only add to the complexity of your existence, to be free of mind identification is to be conscious,.... opinions and beliefs can be dangerous things when carried in the minds of the unconscious, which is perhaps why Jesus said- " they know not what they do" , try not too read too deeply into what ive written as im no expert, i still get the stream of thoughts as i always will by human nature though i no longer look for my identity in them , or make a self out of them, the mind noise prevents you finding you, can you switch it off? If becoming conscious was so easy we would all be self aware, instead our minds try to discredit what we hear not wanting to believe theres more than what we currently know, which keeps us in the cycle of thinking and identifying with the thinking. consider this example- if the following thought enters your mind you could say for example , "i dont want to go to my interview this afternoon" or you could say the truth which is "my minds finding reasons why i shouldnt go to the interview" in the first example we mistake the minds activity for ourselves and call it "I" and in the other example we clearly see a difference, by observing the thoughts we dont make a self out of them and it becomes "my mind" which is what it is. What could be more insane than calling a tool (the mind) "I" when its not you? If you want a loose definition for unconsciousness its identifying with thinking as if it was who we are, and consciousness is becoming the observer of thinking, which do you think brings peace?, after all theres a big difference between ,"i hate ...." and "my minds finding reasons to hate"

I said before this has been known for a very long time but most likely supressed for the sake of organised religion (profit) there are many ways to see this truth , perhaps watch some of these films by filmmakers who know this truth.

The Matrix Trilogy
Revolver
V for vendetta

there are obviously others if your keen to know more

We are all one, only our identified minds seperate us.

If the opposite of birth is death what is the opposite of life?

opposite of life, no life?
to me.life is wat i have now.life is just life.and where we are,where we grow up,our background defines how our life are stacked.

:cry: I'm so sorry "Emicca" that your so confused with reality. I'm so sorry that you had to search for a reason to determine your existence. I'm so sorry that you are filled in a world of confused beings. and I'm so very sorry you have to do, whatever it is you do on a daily basis. :cry:

If someone asked you, Was your life ever different compared to now ?? Would you answer this question ??
-Would you even admit it (your different life)??? or would that somehow disrupt or complicate your prophetic being ??? I would assume by even the mere simplest of questions (that any child would understand and be able to answer) I Bet, that you in-turn, "over analyse" every single question your asked (before you decide to answer it, if at all).

-There must be an Enormous amount of Complexity and Stress, in your way of being. And the need to decide, to what questions should be answered and to what questions should be ignored ?? or What questions, you should answer with a question or do you just decide to repeat "information" that you are suppose to have "learned" in your new way of being. (Those Things you need to tell yourself).

I bet that you have mulitiple personalities, and that you "day-to-day" ask yourself questions. Because, you really have to wonder ?? If you have to "think" about that question ??,.. (Do you have to think about the complexity of each question ??). If you do...

That and that alone, should make you realize, You are more lost then before. You don't even know, the answer to your current existence or your past existence. All it is, that you have done, is "MIND-SET" your way of thinking to a question that you are confronted with. That is a "TRAINED DETERRENT", it's your 1st Defense to your "confusion" (oops) I mean your mind. You should have listened to yourself when you said," ...opinions and beliefs can be a dangerous thing..."

-Because you make it sound like, that you never had a changing opinion and a change of belief since the day you were born. That you are somehow not capable of having having an opinion or belief. Do you believe your hype or do you fight with your contradictions.

Hi

We all have beliefs and opinions, but how many of us will fight and kill to protect them? If someone doesnt agree with my belief or opinion about something its ok, i know its just my opinion and not worth fighting for because i could just as easily have had the reverse opinion and be fighting that instead, surely its time to let go of the seriousness we give our opinions and beliefs after all as you say they change over time so they are never truly real anyway.

I noticed from your profile you are an "ex army vet", perhaps you are used to seeing people as threats or enemies and i am neither. I have nothing to prove or beat you on , i see other people as i see myself, anyone else who would like to hear more please pm me, Thankyou

:cry: I'm so sorry "Emicca" that your so confused with reality. I'm so sorry that you had to search for a reason to determine your existence. I'm so sorry that you are filled in a world of confused beings. and I'm so very sorry you have to do, whatever it is you do on a daily basis. :cry:

You sound like a sad sad man nickD. Ever tried talking instead of killing?


If someone asked you, Was your life ever different compared to now ?? Would you answer this question ??
-Would you even admit it (your different life)??? or would that somehow disrupt or complicate your prophetic being ??? I would assume by even the mere simplest of questions (that any child would understand and be able to answer) I Bet, that you in-turn, "over analyse" every single question your asked (before you decide to answer it, if at all).

Do you have a gambling problem? You and everyone else evolves. You are not a place in a river watching the world go by. You are the river itself. While you seem to evolve to something really nasty, "emicca" is cultivating, or trying to. In another thread here you tell about your sleeping problem. Do you want me to tell you why you find it hard to sleep ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) or do you see it yourself (if you have a self..)?


There must be an Enormous amount of Complexity and Stress, in your way of being. And the need to decide, to what questions should be answered and to what questions should be ignored ?? or What questions, you should answer with a question or do you just decide to repeat "information" that you are suppose to have "learned" in your new way of being. (Those Things you need to tell yourself).

Fantastic. On this one I can just quote you: There must be an Enormous amount of Complexity and Stress, in your way of being. Stop being so angry at the people around you and you will eventually settle your inner. Will make you sleep better. ([Only registered and activated users can see links])


I bet that you have mulitiple personalities, and that you "day-to-day" ask yourself questions. Because, you really have to wonder ?? If you have to "think" about that question ??,.. (Do you have to think about the complexity of each question ??). If you do...

Stop betting. And you really should start asking yourself some questions. A timebomb like you WITH a GUN? Geeez..! That with so much adrenaline that you cannot rest or sleep?!! OMG. ([Only registered and activated users can see links])


That and that alone, should make you realize, You are more lost then before. You don't even know, the answer to your current existence or your past existence. All it is, that you have done, is "MIND-SET" your way of thinking to a question that you are confronted with. That is a "TRAINED DETERRENT", it's your 1st Defense to your "confusion" (oops) I mean your mind. You should have listened to yourself when you said," ...opinions and beliefs can be a dangerous thing..."

And you are a very dangerous man. It's easy to tip you over, right? Flys up over nothing. Bad sleepinghabits. ex army heh? Went into private sector? What? As a Torpedo? Should suit you. I know you will think of me when you go to bed and I know I will be one of the reasons you cannot sleep ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) after youve read this. You laying there hard visualising taking me from behind. Your the man nickD. Come cet fukD. I promise to look like I hate you doin that and you can bring yer guns you stallion.

-Because you make it sound like, that you never had a changing opinion and a change of belief since the day you were born. That you are somehow not capable of having having an opinion or belief. Do you believe your hype or do you fight with your contradictions.

The threads is rather complicated for me. Oh well, let me try to get it out what I can write here.

Being yourself aren't so hard anyway, you will just to have to overcome the biggest obstacle which is you yourself - do the things you think you want to do. The two "you" that emmica was saying about sounds interesting to me, it is all because we have the ability to judge and see which of the thought or decision will be more benefitial (Right?).

Well, but that doesn't really mean that I have a two inner self of myself like a multi-personality (not talking about series killer who has a rather interesting chromosome than we have [maybe I am wrong about this]).
We are born with a type of personality which it is kinda interesting for us to find out who we really are... That's how psychology comes right?

Talking about the inner self of myself... which one you ask is the real me? I would like say, the one you think you are, you are. Complicated?

For example, you are going out to have a nice snack in 3.00am. But you are lazy to wake up from your warm bed and afraid to wake up your sleeping parents even more. There, a decision has to be made, continue sleeping or to have a snack.

Let's say your decision is to have snack, so you go downstair and make your careful steps towards the snack storage xD.
It would be quite well for me to say that, you the real self of you is the one eating snack right now.

In another way round, your decision is to sleep. Still you made a decision, right? It is like, choosing not to eat is also a choice you chose. Right? Your decision is to sleep. Okay, that's fine. That is also you right? It is not like something of inner self. Maybe you are the lazy type that you are lazy to wake up and have some snack, so continue sleeping will be more benefitial for you.

Now, there is another example (in case I haven't yet convince you about my words xD)
You are asking a girl out, deep inside your heart... you really want it. You mean it and looking forward with it. But you didn't go and talk to her and ask her out. Where is your real self? How can I say I am being myself while I am like doing the things that I don't want? I mean it! I want to date her, but I am doing the opposite way.
Still, your shy personality makes you the real you.
Remember, choose not to choose is also a choice you chose...
You are yourself, you don't need to be like worry about where is the real you that would make a better way like a hero. :)

P/S: Maybe I need some professional psychologist show me about the "you" and you. All of my points are based only from my opinion and it won't be much great help in discussing about the topic :)

Hi ,

The mind is a tool like our other senses when its used This may help a little toward your understanding though please dont be detered , its natural to experience an unsettling feeling. (Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]") Its a little awkward quoting jesus as we associate him with religion and not the deeper truth he spoke of, another quote that points directly toward realisation of self comes from Indian sacred writings (teaching of Brahman) read Brahman as being yourself in the following passages:

Not that which is not expressed by speech, but that by which speech is expressed, know this alone to be Brahman, and not that which people here adore.

Not that which is thought by mind, but that by which the mind thinks, know this alone to be Brahman, not that which people here adore.

Not that which is seen by the eye, but that by which the eyes can see, know this alone to be Brahman, not that which people here adore.

This continues on but there is enough here to see where its going.

Some people wake up totally others begin a gradual awakening like a journey, please appreciate all that youve known up till now is your mind identified self and its that mind based self thats preventing you finding you, Our minds live in the past and future whereas we dwell firmly in the present moment so where do you think we spend most of our time as unconscious humans? the shift in consciousness comes when we make the present moment the primary focus of our lives and pay brief visits to the past and future,..accepting whatever this moment brings as though we chose it,.. we let go of damaging thinking (criticism, judgements, opinions)perhaps even through a realisation like -after all if i was blind or deaf how upset would i be now, someone would have to tell you what had happened before you could get upset, if you spoke a foreign language a translator would have to explain why you should be upset, unfortunately though we dont choose to let go as a rule and the evidence of this is on tv and in the papers every da.y , if we continually spend our time in the mind then we are either missing something we once had or striving for something we never quite reach. , when your alert to all around you, you are aligned with presence or being (self) , stillness prevails where once thought dominated.
Im guessing this is the first time youve considered such things so naturally your mind will fight back at first, it stands to lose control over you.

If your getting the impression i describe the mind as an entity in itself you are quite right , anything we lack control of inside cannot be us by the very nature that we can oppose it, that we cant switch it off, that we say "my mind" at all demonstrating the division of two. Being yourself is quite literally letting go of all that you have thought you were up till now, looking for yourself with your mind has been compared to a "chief of police looking for criminal when the criminal is the chief of police, he wont find him by looking because he is him".

Being used by our mind :we experience general feelings of inadequacy, put things off, adopting rules of communication with those around you (eg, i had better not talk about this or that i dont want to upset anyone, got to like this and hate that and think this)and being treated the same way in return, we dont appreciate its only the minds of other people that gets upset and because we think we are our minds we believe its the person were upsetting.

This is a quote from another conscious human- it follows a question answer theme and may be of help:

"Thinking has become a disease. Disease happens when things get out of balance. For example, there is nothing wrong with cells dividing and multiplying in
the body, but when this process continues in disregard of the total organism, cells proliferate and we have disease.
Note: The mind is a superb instrument if used rightly. Used wrongly, however, it becomes very destructive. To put it more accurately, it is not so much
that you use your mind wrongly - you usually don't use it at all. It uses you. This is the disease. You believe that you are your mind. This is the delusion.
The instrument has taken you over.

I don't quite agree. It is true that I do a lot of aimless thinking, like most people, but I can still choose to use my mind to get and accomplish
things, and I do that all the time.
Just because you can solve a crossword puzzle or build an atom bomb doesn't mean that you use your mind. Just as dogs love to chew bones, the mind
loves to get its teeth into problems. That's why it does crossword puzzles and builds atom bombs. You have no interest in either.

Let me ask you this: can you be free of your mind whenever you want to? Have you found the "off" button?

You mean stop thinking altogether? No, I can't, except maybe for a moment or two.

Then the mind is using you. You are unconsciously identified with it, so you don't even know that you are its slave. It's almost as if you were
possessed without knowing it, and so you take the possessing entity to be yourself. The beginning of freedom is the realization that you are not the
possessing entity - the thinker. Knowing this enables you to observe the entity. The moment you start watching the thinker, a higher level of consciousness
becomes activated. You then begin to realize that there is a vast realm of intelligence beyond thought, that thought is only a tiny aspect of that
intelligence. You also realize that all the things that truly matter - beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from beyond the mind.
You begin to awaken".

Thankyou

thedaniel2... <------ :axe:

Quote:
...You sound like a sad sad man nickD. Ever tried talking instead of killing?

Reply:
A sad, sad man? (me??,<---nickD?)...Yes and No. There are times when I feel "current" satisfaction (contentment..Desiring no more than what one has; satisfied.). But, there are times when I (and some people) may encounter, "obstacles" that may hinder, or "side-track" completions, relating to the benefits or either work or life (current/future human existence).

thedaniel2...Ever tried talking instead of killing ??(nickD)??
Reply:
"Yes, since I have experience in both": Talking and Killing..)
As a Supervisor for a (well-known) Major Company (NORTHROP GRUMMAN), and as a former Combat soldier (US ARMY), I can actually say, I have past "Hands-on experience" in killing and "current" experience with "communication skills". Regarding a (my) "Gambling Problem" ?? No, I am not a gambling man. I know what I have, and I realize it's just as easy to loose what I have work hard to achieve in life.

I would like to say (to all who may read this), The views that I previously and currently express on this or any forums are "My Opinions". Just as you have "yours". I can honestly say, "I do not know, who's right or wrong". All we (as human beings) can do is, express are opinions and views on various topics regarding our "current", "scientific" and "known" human existence on this planet. ("100% Unprovable"...religious views??)

emicca (First post for this topic...)
Quote:
...Ive read books as i know we all have, exploring NLP and NAC the practical use of your mind by conditioning desired behavioural reactions to develop your life in a "new direction", to take control and become a more mentally powerful human should you choose to, also reading the works of American author Tony Robbins helped in developing a broad appreciation for the huge subjectiveness of our human behaviour, the trouble was i still felt there was something else, something more i was missing .. after all why do we seperate ourselves from each other always trying to be different wether by our "beliefs or opinions, why are we feeling inadequate and "feeling compelled to become more" in some way to belong or feel a part of something? why are we so afraid ?

...Quote: emicca (continued):
...What i realised answered all the questions and its been known for a very long time, it has no alternatives, contains no beliefs, or opinions though as you may be wondering why dont we all know it ?, the truth is we do we just dont realise it yet , and realising this truth is up to you though "there is an obstacle to overcome.

...Quote emicca (continued):
..."How many will listen to the truth when you tell them?" (Yiddish Proverb)
..."There is nothing in life either good or
bad until thinking makes it so" (William Shakespeare)
...
...Realisation of life is the knowing of what you are not...
...not the collection of values, opinions and beliefs but the awareness of those beliefs...
...be aware that beliefs opinions and values can change ...
...but nothing real ever changes. (?????????)
...You know your life experience (burden) is interpreted by your mind...
...the burden you carry is not physical whether strong or weak this excess bagage exists for us all...
...
...Your choice is to put down or continue to carry this burden...
...i only say be honest with yourself "know" inside what is being said to you ...
...
...im not giving you a belief, im telling you the truth. emicca "End Quote"

NOW,...thedaniel2, (Profile INFO)
Age:28
Biography: I do grfx. And sometimes I don't. I sing alot
Occupation: Creative head and vocalist (????? Creative head ?????)

Creative, (definition)
One who displays productive originality, Having the ability or power to create.
Characterized by originality and expressiveness; imaginative

...Before giving your opinion about me, and the things I've said about myself, Why don't you (thedaniel2) try doing one thing first. ????

The topic is: Being Yourself posted by: emicca

...Give me "Your Opinion" (thedaniel2)about her (emicca) topic posting. (If you can understand what she is trying to express to us). But, (my opinion) your having your own problems related to your own "sexuality" and "sexual needs"....

thedaniel2
Quote:
...(To: nickD) :arrow: ...I know you will think of me when you go to bed and I know I will be one of the reasons you cannot sleep after youve read this. You laying there hard visualising taking me from behind...
...(To: nickD) :arrow: ...Come cet fukD. I promise to look like I hate you doin that and you can bring yer guns you stallion.

To all, I guess that's thedaniel2 way of "Being (sexually frustated) himself" :butthead:

Let's stick to emicca's topic: Being yourself

...adding new opinions, values and beliefs etc which only add to the complexity of your existence, to be free of mind identification is to be conscious,.... opinions and beliefs can be dangerous things...:?: <----(emicca's quote)

Hi NickD,
Glad to have you back, ... TheDaniel2 has endeavoured to keep this thread on track to which i am grateful, not everyone will want to hear what i have to say and i appreciate that, though there are those who see something that maybe excites them and fuels a desire to know, perhaps they are only too well aware of the crap their minds come out with, have had enough and are ready to hear this.

If you want to see beyond the words it wont help you in analysing what you learn. The mind provides analysis, this thread is concerned with being free from mind identification, or recognising yourself as the creator of your own pain.

Quote "looking for yourself with your mind has been compared to a "chief of police looking for a criminal when the criminal is in fact the chief of police, he wont find him by looking outside because he is him"

Perhaps a better explanation is in order , there is unconsciousness (knocked out-asleep) and there is unconsciousness (identifying with thoughts-not alert-not present) the first is obvious so lets focus on the second-

Say for example you go away on holiday, when you arrive you see other pople there, mostly happy , and off you go to the beach, you are relaxing nicely in the sun when a wet dog fresh from the shoreline bounds past you , spattering you lightly with its wet fur as it passes.

What do you do? you could find the owner and complain, you could try to hurt the dog in some small retaliation, you could moan about it, you might tell your friends later, you could get really angry, you could keep it in your mind for longer thinking about it, there are obviously many reactions, and a conscious reaction? to notice your mind trying its best to get you to listen to its criticism and let it pass not giving it anymore time in your mind a choice that returns you quickest to the relaxed state you were in,

If already your mind is looking for problems with this then know this, If you "think" your reactions "are" you or your choices then whenever your upset, angry, jealous, or experiencing any painful emotion or anything other than the joy of being here then you chose this, you thought yes the best thing to do is get upset and feel ill inside as a consequence and keep it going.

Heres little story to emphasise, its taken from someone elses work.

Two monks are out walking together across the countryside when they notice
a lady trying in vain to cross a muddy stream, one of the monks walked over and offers to carry the lady setting her down on the other side, upon returning to his friend, they continue to walk for a while when suddenly his friend asked "why did you carry the lady? , you know were not supposed to interfere". The monk replied "I put that lady down over an hour ago, why are you still carrying her?"


Its all to easy to ridicule that which we dont at first understand but where is the human intelligence in such behaviour, people i know who have read this thread got themselves upset over what you had written about me and were frustrated at my response, that i didnt attack back , I told them it takes mind identification to defend, and all i would be defending would be a percieved mental position of superiority and that would just bring more chaos and pain (my wet dog choice)

Thankyou

(emicca's...Wet dog at the beach, (question)...

...a wet dog fresh from the shoreline bounds past you , spattering you lightly with its wet fur as it passes...

...I wouldn't do anything, in response to that dog whose just "instinctively" reacting to it being wet.

But, ...I'm also assuming that if I was at the beach (in that situation), I automatically do a (quick overall) "Assessment" about the beach, the people, the atmosphere (temperamant), etc...
I'm sure as soon as that dog entered my field of scope, I would've already assessed his situation (for example: his demeanor, if he looked unfriendly, if he looked lost, or if he's just passing through & having fun...)

As with everything (I believe), Our minds will always be "assessing" (or questioning) the current situation around us and assessing possibilities (scenario's) that may arise (good/bad).

For example: Our unconscience mind always interprets the sorroundings that we are currently occupying and mentally prepares for the unlikely outcome of a perceived "but possible" situation. I believe that our minds are always on, and always thinking (even if we are resting/sleeping). It's 2nd Nature to us, It's just natural for us to think about ourselves, our environment, the people, the future, and the current acceptable views/opinions of society. We try to know as much as we can, and we mentally prepare (our minds) with various "scenarios" of what we may encounter and face. We do it everyday...

In this current society that we must all live in; -Our minds are bombarded (every minute) with glimpses, acknowledgements, possibilities, scenarios, outcomes, decisions that we (human beings) may or maynot face just around the corner. We're too busy thinking about the "Constant 2 (questions)". -What is right and What is wrong. Who is right and Who is Wrong.

There isn't an instruction book that "DICTATES" of how our brains are suppose to work and What we're "SUPPOSE-TO-KNOW" and not know regarding the life we live and the (future) existence of all of man kind.

And yet, The people who are suppose to be "Religious Ones" and who are "Suppose" to Know, what is right & wrong, and who is bad & good.
They are the the reason, we have New Front-Line War or Conflict. If only those "Religious" people could just "Live-and-Learn" instead of quoting "religious propaganda", Life would be so less Opinionated and Contrary.

Day by Day, we learn (on the News) about the complexity of the human brain, and how it is continuously evolving, understanding, and capable of learning so much more then we had previously known, so that it may "benefit" our lives and our future.

Think about the word: "LIFE" (define it if you would)...to exist or live from point to another point (Day to Day, Week to Week, Month to Month, Year to Year etc...).

Now..., Think about the word: "RELIGION" ...???...
What does "Religion Influence and Provide" People ??? Answer: It Provides and Influences---> Seperation of Man.

The 1st Thing it does is "SEPERATE" (What is wrong).
The 2nd Thing it does is "SEPERATE" (Who is wrong).
The 3rd Thing it does is "SEPERATE" (What is Fact).
The 4th Thing it does is "SEPERATE" (Everything that "LIFE" is, that may influence, "NEW CHANGE" (Regarding: The Knowledge of Life).

If they're suppose to know how they were created, and the (two) places where you would end up. And what they're idea of what life is (right/wrong/science/fact)??? Why don't they have a "SIMPLER" and "Knowledgeable" Way of Life. It seems as if they go out of they're way to add more confusion to their lives, By preaching the Teachings/Understandings, and the Word of God, And yet becoming so INVOLVED with the participation and procurement of New Ideas, Concepts, Technologies, and SCIENCE APPLICABLE TOOLS/MACHINES ?? -?????-

Mankind realizes that they continue to progress & learn new things that didn't previously exist centuries before. And this greatly impacts our "Known Human Knowledge." and the Progression of New and Learned Concepts for man.
Life is a learning process, we learn things as we Live and we incorporate new things so that they may benefit our future (as an individual and for benefit of mankind).

Religion, May seem Black and White. They seem to acknowledge and understand what they're future holds, because of what Religion IS. They will continue to Proclaim they now, have a "Higher" sense-of-knowledge. But, this is they're Downfall. Because, if one must look for, understand, and practice this technique to remove all of their "lifes mental-incapacities".

-My opinion is, -Because if you have to "USE" a new read idea regarding a learned technique/idea that involves the Theoretical concepts/ideas involving mental conscientiousness and Human Fundamentals relating to personal Pschology. Then I would say, ...Heck??, When does GOD plan to have a (psych) session with the DEVIL, so he could provide us with a possible motivation for his evil-ness?? Maybe we can determine if he suffered from inadequacies during adolescents and if he prone to fits of pyromania ??

When I hear People talking about "Psychology or the Practices & Concepts Related to Mental Health." Why do the "religious" fanatics, and believers start "Incorporating/Blending" Quotes from the Bible, God, Jesus Christ, with the Newly Learned Psych Techings. If you find, that you've done this in the past (emicca) then I would say, you are just one of the reasons why this world is so confused and in turmoil. You read, Listen and relate new ideas, that we just learned in this century, and then say, that is what God or Jesus Christ meant, 2000 yrs. ago to local farmers, fishermans, and merchants of that time. The reason why the "so called" Religious Prophets are so dangerous is because of the "Twisting" and "Incorporating" this concept, and then saying this is: What he Said. This is What he meant. and This is what they learned. And now, you too Understand it's "Deeper" meaning.... Fanatics and "So-called" Prophets, LOVE to spin this All the Time. And since you too "TWIST" this concept to a "Deeper" Thought and call it your Religious History.

I would say those people are very "Deceitful" -Intended to deceive. -Marked by "deliberate" deceptiveness especially by "pretending one set of feelings" and "acting under the influence of another". -Misrepresentation of the truth.

Question: If "you" never practiced Religion, what would you be doing today?
Would other people's life be any different ??? Or would you not concern yourself about other people ??? Does a religious person "ALWAYS" have to be compelled to be a part of something and be part of a group ???
Does being Religious make you "Dependent" as a need to belong to a part of a current society?? What are you looking for ??? And Why haven't you found it ??? Do you think you will ever find it ??? Would you say Religion is like a tool ???? :arrow: ...To fill-in the "missing" answers that people have.

:) Please Don't think I'm Attacking you. On the Contrary, I would really Love to find out the thresholds concerning your Religious Views/Opinions. I would love to find out, how religion became a part of someones life, why, and what exactly do they believe in, and how it effects they're life (if at all ??). Any, religious aspects you may not know 100%. And yet, no matter what, this will never deviate your religious beliefs ??? (Doesn't that make no sense???) Is it True, that if you "think" about or question (mentally) "Not believing in GOD" that your soul is suppose to go to hell. What your Opinion about being a Creationist ??? VS. being an EVOLUTIONIST ??? Unless your ready to talk about your beliefs, express your opinions, You will always be in my opinion, One of those people in the middle...just looking for something, and always Stuck in the middle, (Just in case, scenario).

Fear of the Unknown, is worse then Death.
Death as we all know it, will come, sooner or later.
Are you Stuck in the middle (out on the ledge)..???
Waiting to Jump or Waiting for Death.??? ....
Anticipation for death, can't be soon enough....
If you've asked for it (Like I have, Many times before) <----True (for me)

...and realizing...It isn't coming. It must not be,... my Time.

Would really like to know what makes you Tick & Tock? :rolleyes:
"I have so many opinions about life, but....we can only do...what we can do."

:arrow: :prayer: LIFE:?:

Hi again,

Wow thats a lot of typing !!

Ill expand on the nature of the mind because the expressions "i think" and "my mind says" are different. The first implies you as the thinker and the second implies you as the observer of thinking, so in the first case..........

If "i think" circumstances are bad, then im unconsciously going to feel the appropriate emotion, down, upset, miserable, bored etc.(identifying with the thoughts aka.. ego)

If "my mind says" circumstances are bad, i know underneath this thought that all is as it is, therefore i wont give the thought any time, my choice will always be one of three, accept the circumstances if practical to do so, try to change the circumstances if not, or move away from the circumstances.

Sometimes circumstances may seem really bad but its just our mental resistance inside that makes them appear bad when in fact they are not.
In prison for example what would be intelligent, perhaps try to appeal, otherwise accept where you are, inner resistance to being in prison would create imense psychological pain, some turn suicidal. Which is another great way to show you the truth, you are human, what do you think is happening in the mind of someone about to end it all? If they were self aware, knowing the thoughts as just thoughts would they really take them so seriously and reach for a noose and chair,

Im not religious and it doesnt matter to me which messenger brings the truth, weve killed them all thus far anyway, Beliefs and opinions are destructive, all the other species on this planet do well without them , perhaps we have something to learn.

You speak of fear and a wanting to know, though for somethings in life knowledge is not enough something must come about for the learning to have any depth within us ,for us to have an understanding.

Of course we can all learn practically anything within our intellects, but what difference does depth make?, it makes the difference between knowledge and application of that knowledge, the information by itself is helpful as a guide, the integration and application of the knowledge is true intelligence. Dont expect self realisation from reading what i write about enlightenment, even the most effective book is only usefull if the knowledge is applied in every day living, anyone truly focussed on becoming self aware will apply what they learn shifting there focus to the present moment for the shift in consciousness to take place.

You express an urge to know more about why i say or do what i do and why i do it,?
Where are all these questions coming from?, knowing more will not help you find you, after all youve obviously asked a lot of questions over the years yet here you are still looking? Have you tried looking at now? You will realise that in the present moment you are already complete, you have nowhere to get to, nothing to fight for or believe in, and above all nothing to fear.

After all the present moment is all you ever have and thats where you will find you. Does your mind keep dragging you off to past and future analysing this or that ?

Buddhist masters teaching students self awareness would carry a stick around.......if a master could approach and strike you with the stick it would teach you that you were not alert, not aware of your surroundings, lost in thinking. An alert student would hear the master approaching long before he reached striking distance.

Im not professing to be Jesus or John Lennon reincarnated, i share neither musical mastery, an age in which to be heard or a following of any kind ,though i do carry the same message from these men, i seek only to enlighten you my friends because if we carry on as we have been we all know what to expect.

Thankyou

Hi again,

The continuation of this thread is intended to develop an appreciation of what self awareness is, over the next few posts we will look at clear distinctions between self awareness and mind identification.

To recap, we know that we can wait for a thought to enter our mind and consequently from this we can know beyond any doubt that we are not the thinking mind but rather we are the witness to the stream of thinking, this is all very well but its realising the consequence of years of such actions that are key to letting go of this illusory sense of self. Perhaps your mind says "so what?" , lets look at the implications of remaining ignorant to your true sense of self and the bearing it has had and will continue to have on your life experience if left unchallenged.

If we remain within the confides of our minds we invite pain into our existence in the form of resistance and what i mean by resistance is the general inhibition we seem to suffer by not choosing to accept, change or move away from the circumstances we encounter, disrupting the natural flow of life.

Do you often find yourself saying what people want to hear a lot just to keep them happy?
do you agree to do things that you really didnt want to do at all? do you put things off that would help you greatly if you did them? Is there something youd like to give someone but your mind says sell it? does it try to get you to take advantage of people for your own gain?
im sure most of us experience all the above mentioned things at one time or another and because we largely all do it, we satisfy each others mind identified selves, it appears quite normal. How normal is it to constantly give one impression to people and hold an entirely different one in your mind ? the way we are in the world today can hardly be considered normal, we are hostile to each other, we try to take advantage or exploit one another we do the same to animals and the same to the planet, its about time we woke up to what we do .

True choice is letting go of what your mind has to say about something and doing what you know is best, what we know and what we think are two different things.

For example if you want the toilet then go , dont listen to your mind saying "i'll go in a sec", or "i'll just do this first then go"' etc etc etc , these are just two possibilities of many. If you want to do well in that job interview then why listen to your mind trying to make you feel nervous or say you wont get it,when you can smile at the potentially damaging things it trys to catch you with and let them go.

The question/answer below is taken from another website.

Question:
Is there any relationship between ailments such as depression and anxiety and the way we conceive our life? In which way are mind, body and emotions connected?
..
Answer:
Thinking, for most people, is involuntary and compulsive, even addictive. Many people are tortured on a daily basis by their minds, by the voice in their head that never stops speaking. Most negative emotional states are caused by dysfunctional thinking, and emotions are the reaction of your body to your thoughts. For example, grievances, resentment, guilt etc. disappear when the voice in your head stops telling its old stories. Fear disappears when your mind no longer creates future scenarios – to which your body reacts as if they were a present reality

More soon ........

Thanks

"Many people are tortured on a daily basis by their minds, by the voice in their head that never stops speaking."
hi;
sorry for interfering ,that's what i call self-sabotage,isn't it?yep.people are always talking to themselves coz they're building sth in their mind.they don't know if they stop talking,time stops,too.when time stops,you can stop the world.what next?everything will be under control,everybody would listen to you and obey you and follow what you do or say.if can't control yourself ,how can control others?
that's not the matter of CONTROLLING someone;this is just a point of your love,affection and influence over them.in this case you can help them find their way out of this maze.
we always format our computer,cell phone;but we never format our heart,our mind.for our computer we buy and install antivirus,but we never prepare antivirus for our tongues,ears,hearts,and mind.lots of infecting thoughts come in and go out without being really controlled.funny, yeah?
i don't really know what you were talking about;but just saw an excerpt of your heart-to-heart discussion.
i apologize to you for entering your debate and breaking it.mind has its own game and if you want to play with it,you gotta know the rule;otherwise,logic will cause you to sympathize with yourself and feel pity for yourself.(defense mechanism in psychology).
nice talking to you,though none of you expected a third party and also an intruder.
thanx a lot and accept my apology.

Who can differentiate "self" from "mind"?

oh! very good.after ages this thread has been revived.
good discussion.
let's keep going everybody!:good2: